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The HYGAIN Forum - Where the experts lend their advice and experiences Discussion: Thoroughbreds or Warmbloods?
Danielle Harvey	Georgia Clifford		Greg Smith	Jenny Gehrke

	Danielle Harvey - Breeding/Eventing There will always be the diehard warmblood fans just as there will be the thoroughbred devotees. Personally I'm smack bang in the middle. As a breeder and also as a rider I have come to understand and appreciate how the two breeds are able to complement each other in aim of producing the ideal sporthorse. The modern warmblood today can thank a significant amount of t/bred blood in it's pedigree for the great reputation and success it enjoys today in equestrian sport.
With eventing being an endurance sport it is fair to say that the talented TB will (and should) always dominate the sport. Of course there will always be the successful wb or Irish cross athlete but when it comes down to a breed with the biggest heart, the fastest speed, and the greatest stamina for eventing the TB is without doubt second to none. With the show jumpers - athletic ability and speed are also all important pre-req's but at the end of the day it all comes down to one word......scope! More often than not the wb is the more gifted in this department. While good training can certainly help improve front end technique, gymnastic ability and speed, only nature can provide scope and a natural back end. As rider it's always so much nicer to be sitting on a purpose bred (wb) show jumper. Simply put - they are born to do it. I remember a friend of mine who is now a member of the Dutch Olympic Show Jumping Team once telling me 'where you have scope you have hope'. Scope is no.1. One day your top horse may be a WB like Carthargo (Jos Lansink), the next day it could be a TB like Shutterfly (Meredith Beerbaum-Michaels). Both breeds have proven their ability to win in this sport at the highest level. The World Show Jumping Rankings however tend to show a clear dominance from the wb breed but again this is thanks to a little help from the 'blood' in their veins. (TB & SF) In dressage wb's have always been the natural first choice of most riders. While the TB is more than capable of successfully training up to Grand Prix, it could be fair to say that wb's tend to 'fill' a dressage arena with that extra something special. (not always but certainly more often than not) Not all that long ago some of the wb dressage horses here in Australia could have quite easily been described as a bit of a tank like creature (lol). This big over sized monster that could certainly move but needed a strong male rider to constantly 'tune up' for better rideability. (Actually I am referring to my first gorgeous horse back in 1994 who happened to be a wb. We have come a long way in 12 years!) Today the market demands a lighter, more rideable type (otherwise known as a 'house wife horse' in Germany) - A beautiful moving, elegant, easy going, trainable type that does not require it's rider to be a male and full of muscles. Adding carefully selected 'blood' to the bigger, more old fashioned broodmares in Europe, the breed has today evolved into a very attractive type of riding horse. In some cases looking like 16.2 hand ponies - pretty and dainty. The wb power and movement is still there but in the text book examples ,the modern wb today has a stronger back, better feet, greater intelligence, better soundness, and greater rideability and trainability........that is thanks again to the TB! Danielle Harvey Back to Top
	Georgia Clifford - Eventing With the new short format that has recently been incorporated into eventing, the debate has become quite heated over whether the horses that will dominate in the future will be warmbloods or thoroughbreds. In many ways it is interesting that the debate has only just hotted up as so many of our eventing champions of recent years have not been full thoroughbreds Kibac Tic Toc and Darien Powers to name just two! In the old long format of eventing, where phase D incorporated steeplechase and roads and tracks phases as well as the cross country phase, the thoroughbred horse often had a real advantage because of his speed and endurance capabilities. Now that the cross country test no longer incorporates the steeple chase and the roads and tracks element, the endurance requirements of the horse are not so significant which therefore opens the door to a horse with slightly less speed and endurance capabilities.
In addition, as eventing evolves, the dressage and show jumping phases are becoming more and more challenging. In my opinion it is in the foreseeable future when we will see the dressage test being of a Prix St George standard and the show jumping test moving upwards from 1.30m at the highest level. The thoroughbred I have always loved riding thoroughbreds. They are often more sensitive to ride than warmbloods, their reactions are generally forward and they are generally horses that try their absolute hardest at all times. I guess the downside also arises as a by product of the upside in that the thoroughbred as a breed probably has more of a tendency to be "hot". One of the great things about eventing in Australia is the availability of fabulous thoroughbred horses. The vast majority of thoroughbreds are bred for a career on the race track and the thoroughbred industry breeds thousands of lovely horses every year. Once these horses have finished their racing career (usually as a result of being too slow) we have an opportunity to retrain them for a career as a performance horse and usually at an affordable price. Whilst there is no doubt that many of our best horses have come via the race track, it is important to be incredibly careful to ensure that the horse that you are buying has not stopped racing as a result of encountering soundness issues. The warmblood 'A warmblood' is a generic term referring to combinations of horses from the Trakhener, Holsetiner and even thoroughbred breeds to name just a few. Unlike the thoroughbred, it is not a closed breed and accordingly, can contain crosses of a variety of different breeds. An exceptional individual of any breeding is likely to be accepted into warmblood stud books. As a result of this flexibility, the warmblood breed is, in my opinion, more likely to evolve quicker as a breed producing modern sport horses. The benefit of a 'warmblood' is often their steadier temperament combined with their greater strength enabling higher levels of collection in the dressage phase and greater strength off the ground in the jumping phases. The risk with eventing warmblood horses has always been the fact that many will not have the required speed and stamina for the cross country phase. Increasingly however, warmbloods have been crossed with thoroughbreds producing a lighter, more modern style of warmblood that is more likely to have this greater speed and stamina. There are many arguments for and against both Warmbloods and Thoroughbreds being the way of the future in eventing. As the demands of the dressage and showjumping phases increases, we are more likely to see a greater percentage of cross bred horses being competed at the higher levels. However, in my opinion it is important to look at each individual on its merits and I would never discount a horse on the basis of it's breeding. Georgia Clifford Back to Top
	Greg Smith - ShowJumping The age old debate on 'Thoroughbreds versus Warmbloods' is one that has been argued in Australia for many years, with no conclusive winner. Personal likes and circumstances usually decide each individuals preference of choice. Having competed and trained showjumping horses for most of my life this is the discipline I feel most qualified to comment on. First of all I'd like to state that my preference is for any horse that has a good brain, is rideable and has some natural jumping ability. The breed is irrelevant. Having said that I would also like to say that I'm not so blind as to see the reasons why some people may choose one breed over the other.
If someone is looking for a horse that they can dominate in training without blowing it's mind then a warmblood would probably suit them more than a thoroughbred. However if a person isn't physically strong and prefers a horse that is forward and light to the aids then a thoroughbred may be better. From my experience the jumping ability of either breed can be good or bad depending on the individual horse, so in the end it comes down to a numbers game of trying as many horses as possible until you find the right one. Having made the last comment this brings us to another area in the 'Thoroughbreds versus Warmbloods' debate which I believe requires mentioning, is the plentiful supply of ex-racehorses in Australia at an affordable price in favour of the thoroughbred. People can buy and try a lot more horses which can strengthen the chance of finding that elusive champion. The downside of the ex-racehorse is that many of these horses have old racing injuries or bad habits created by the racing environment. Also the good racehorses (the ones we all want) usually race to a ripe old age and aren't so young when we finally get our hands on them. But at the end of the day a good horse will adapt to a different environment and sport and still remain a good horse. The advantages of a purpose bred warmblood is that now days we can pick the horse with the pedigree and bloodlines that best suits our discipline. With the help of frozen semen and an ever improving breeding system that is being developed in Australia, this gives us a better chance of obtaining the right horse. The problem is that this comes at a price that may not be suitable for everyone. The truth of it all is, no matter what horse you have, the making of a champion comes from lots of hard work, good management and correct training. Best of luck Greg Smith. Back to Top
	Jenny Gherke - Dressage I am particularly fond of both Thoroughbreds and warmblood horses. For my sport, Dressage, I would generally recommend a warmblood. The reason behind this is that warmbloods are purpose bred for equestrian sports. The breeders have tried to combine the quality and athleticism of the hot blood horses with the temperament and substance of the cold blood horses to produce a riding horse. There have been many very talented thoroughbred dressage horses and the warmblood breeders regularly go back to the thoroughbred lines to refine their breeds.
Not all warmbloods are bred for dressage, many are bred for jumping. The attributes that we look for in a dressage horse are three regular, free and athletic paces. Their conformation needs to be generally "uphill". They also need to have the ability to collect and carry their weight on their hind quarters. Importantly their temperament must be calm yet intelligent and confident. These attributes may be found in many breeds of horses but International results show that they are more commonly found in warmbloods. Not every dressage bred warmblood will be good at dressage. The breeding is important yet it is only a part of the "package" that makes up a successful Dressage combination. Jenny Gherke Back to Top